Subtitles An Evening With Kevin Smith - Subtitles English 3CD - Download DivX subtitles and DVD subtitles for every DVD or DivX movie!

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1
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Making that movie was fine.

2
00:00:02,898 --> 00:00:05,992
But when we were getting ready
to put it out...

3
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...it was fucking nuts.
We got death threats.

4
00:00:09,304 --> 00:00:14,867
We had 300,000 pieces of hate mail
and three death threats.

5
00:00:15,043 --> 00:00:18,103
Or two. Two-and-a-half death threats.

6
00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:21,249
Because I think one recanted
toward the end.

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00:00:21,416 --> 00:00:24,613
"I'm gonna fucking kill you!
Well, maybe not."

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00:00:25,420 --> 00:00:30,722
There was one that I'll never forget
and will take it with me to my grave.

9
00:00:30,892 --> 00:00:35,124
Not the actual missive, but what
it said. I've read it so many times...

10
00:00:35,297 --> 00:00:39,927
I've read it to people so many times
that I committed it to memory:

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"You Jews better take the money you
stole from us and buy flak jackets...

12
00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:50,810
...because we're coming in there with
shotguns. Your brothers in Christ... "

13
00:00:51,646 --> 00:00:55,104
The Jews in question were
Harvey and Bob Weinstein...

14
00:00:55,283 --> 00:00:59,947
...who run Miramax and Dimension,
who were originally releasing the flick.

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00:01:00,122 --> 00:01:03,558
They got it the worst. I was Catholic,
so people would just be like...

16
00:01:03,725 --> 00:01:07,593
..."You ought to know better.
But your Jew buddies will pay."

17
00:01:07,763 --> 00:01:11,221
You don't want to point out
that Christ was Jewish...

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...because these people tend
to forget that.

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00:01:14,669 --> 00:01:17,194
"Jewish? No, he's a Wasp."

20
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But it was insane.

21
00:01:27,983 --> 00:01:32,750
We had to stop receiving mail at the
office. They had a service open it.

22
00:01:32,921 --> 00:01:35,617
We couldn't receive packages
for a year.

23
00:01:35,791 --> 00:01:39,352
When we went to Cannes,
they wanted to put up metal detectors.

24
00:01:39,528 --> 00:01:44,727
The Palais wouldn't let them,
so Miramax hired armed bodyguards.

25
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It was really a kooky time.
And the whole time I'm just like:

26
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"It's a movie with a fucking rubber
poop monster in it." You know?

27
00:02:00,408 --> 00:02:02,273
"Take it easy!"

28
00:02:02,777 --> 00:02:06,907
But people judge it, of course,
without seeing it.

29
00:02:07,081 --> 00:02:11,575
Mostly the people who were attacking
the movie would never see it.

30
00:02:11,752 --> 00:02:13,219
They never bothered.

31
00:02:13,387 --> 00:02:16,117
If they had watched it,
they would've been like:

32
00:02:16,290 --> 00:02:20,420
"We'd be stupid to go after it
because it's not a threat.

33
00:02:20,594 --> 00:02:24,462
There is a rubber poop monster
up there on the screen.

34
00:02:24,632 --> 00:02:28,796
The kid was right."
But they didn't, so you know...

35
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We were the way for the group that
went after us, the Catholic League...

36
00:02:34,508 --> 00:02:39,377
...to go after Disney and Miramax,
who were the original distributors.

37
00:02:39,547 --> 00:02:42,380
They tend to go after Disney
quite a bit.

38
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If you go after Disney,
you get a lot of press.

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Particularly if you're charging Disney
with being anti-Catholic.

40
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The weird thing is when the Weinsteins
bought the movie from Miramax...

41
00:02:55,363 --> 00:02:59,094
...and resold it to Lions Gate,
the eventual distributors...

42
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...the Catholic League went away.
They made so much noise about, like:

43
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"We'll take this movie down.
It'll never be seen.

44
00:03:06,674 --> 00:03:11,543
It's a true affront to all Catholics.
God hates it. Blah, blah, blah."

45
00:03:11,712 --> 00:03:15,705
When Lions Gate picked it up,
they were like, "We won."

46
00:03:15,883 --> 00:03:19,011
We were like, "How?
The movie's still coming out."

47
00:03:19,186 --> 00:03:23,145
They were like, "Yeah,
but Disney's not distributing it."

48
00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:29,821
I was always very curious
about the protesters and whatnot.

49
00:03:29,997 --> 00:03:33,057
So when the movie came out,
I got involved.

50
00:03:33,267 --> 00:03:37,294
I read in the Asbury Park Press
that there was gonna be a protest...

51
00:03:37,471 --> 00:03:40,770
...at our theater in Eatontown,
the Sony multiplex.

52
00:03:40,941 --> 00:03:46,004
So I said, "Holy shit. I wanna go."
I read there was gonna be 1500 people.

53
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I said, "I'm bound to know some of them
because I went to church with them.

54
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My mom might be one of them."

55
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I wanna go, and I said to the wife,
"Let's go to the protest."

56
00:04:00,394 --> 00:04:05,491
She was like, "You're fucking nuts."
I said, "We should go. It'll be fun."

57
00:04:05,666 --> 00:04:07,361
She said, "I don't know."

58
00:04:07,535 --> 00:04:11,733
I said, "We'll call Bryan. He'll go too."
My friend Bryan Johnson.

59
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I called him and said,
"You wanna go protest the movie?"

60
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He's like, "I've been dying
to do that for months."

61
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So Bryan came over, and we grabbed
some construction paper.

62
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Like, those big pieces.

63
00:04:27,054 --> 00:04:32,287
We got magic markers and glue
and sparklies, and we made signs.

64
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We're working on our signs really well
because we want to blend in.

65
00:04:38,132 --> 00:04:42,125
And one of them said,
"Dogma is Dogshit."

66
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The other one said,
"To Hell With Dogma. "

67
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Both of us were really
taking our time.

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Just, like, not going
outside the lines.

69
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"Is this done?"
"No, a little glitter."

70
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Really went all out.
And then drove over to the multiplex.

71
00:05:05,926 --> 00:05:09,225
So we get there,
and the 1500 is about 15, period.

72
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I see a smattering of people
at the head of the driveway...

73
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...very far from the theater.

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I'm like, "Wow, that looks weird.
They must be watching the protest."

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We pull up and that is the protest.
So we got out with our signs.

76
00:05:25,646 --> 00:05:30,345
Bryan and I are the youngest
people there by about 50 years.

77
00:05:30,918 --> 00:05:35,514
So it's a bunch of 65-year-old people,
maybe some 50-year-olds.

78
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They're all praying the rosary,
and they have a very large crucifix...

79
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...with our Lord, in his usual pose.

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They're all reciting the rosary,
which I know well...

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...because I went to Catholic school.

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Bryan didn't, so I said,
"Follow after me."

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I'm like, "Our father, who art
in heaven... " Bryan's like:

84
00:06:01,549 --> 00:06:03,449
"Lord...

85
00:06:04,151 --> 00:06:05,982
Jesus...

86
00:06:06,954 --> 00:06:07,943
Joseph..."

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I'm like,
"He's not in the Our Father!"

88
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We're holding our signs,
reciting the rosary...

89
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...and we notice that nobody
really has any signs.

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At least, none that are
nearly as nice as ours.

91
00:06:22,736 --> 00:06:28,470
There's a dude whose sign looks like
it was torn out of the bottom of a box.

92
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Like, just kind of cut out.
And it said, "Dogma is Bad."

93
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It looked like he wrote it in his car
with a pen from his glove compartment.

94
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No glue, no sparklies...

95
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...not a streamer in sight.
Really, just no effort whatsoever.

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He's standing next to me.
I have my sign.

97
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He's holding his sign, it's this big.
Mine is like a sandwich board.

98
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We're doing the Our Father.
I'm next to him. He's like:

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"Our father, who art in heaven,
hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom... "

100
00:07:05,613 --> 00:07:10,277
He put his sign down because he was so
embarrassed that mine was that great.

101
00:07:13,020 --> 00:07:18,754
And a lady who was about three or four
people over had seen our signs...

102
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...had looked when we were joining the
line or when we'd joined the line already.

103
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She came over and said, "You can't
have that here." I said, "Why?"

104
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She's like, "You can't say
that kind of thing here."

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She was pointing at
"Dogma is Dogshit."

106
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She's like, "You gotta get rid of that."
I'm like, "I wanna protest the movie."

107
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She's like, "We don't need that kind of
help. We don't wanna say those things."

108
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I was like,
"But it's true. The movie is."

109
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She said, "Just take the word off.
Take that one offensive word off."

110
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And I said, "But then it just says
'Dogma is Dog."'

111
00:08:03,671 --> 00:08:07,437
She said, "Just take off the two letters."
I said, "All right."

112
00:08:07,608 --> 00:08:11,567
And I bend it up. And so now it says,
"Dogma is Dogsh."

113
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She goes back to her place.
About 15 minutes into the fourth...

114
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We're into the fourth decate.
A news van pulls up.

115
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I'm not lying. News van pulls up.
Channel 12 News, local in our area.

116
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So I'm standing there,
and I'm looking at them.

117
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I'm thinking,
"This'll be interesting."

118
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I think about bolting. I was like, "These
people don't know, they'll never know."

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A lady gets out, journalist,
well-dressed, and she has a clipboard.

120
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All of a sudden, she kind of looks
in my general direction.

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She goes back to looking around, then
comes back and looks at her clipboard.

122
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So she comes over.
And Bryan's like, "Holy shit."

123
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She comes over. She's looking
at her clipboard and looking at me.

124
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And she's like, "Are you him?"

125
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And I was like, "No, that's him."

126
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You know, because our Lord
was there. And she goes:

127
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"No, are you him? Are you the guy?"

128
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I said, "No, no.
But I get that all the time."

129
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She was like, "Would you mind if I
interviewed you?" I said, "Please."

130
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Because I'm a press whore.
So even, you know, if I'm incognito...

131
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...l'm happy to give an interview.
So she calls the camera guy over.

132
00:10:07,995 --> 00:10:13,058
He starts shooting, and she's like,
"So, what are you doing here tonight?"

133
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I said, "We're protesting this movie."

134
00:10:16,403 --> 00:10:22,467
She said, "Okay. Have you seen it?"
And I said, "No, no."

135
00:10:23,110 --> 00:10:26,204
You know, because I wanted
to be in character.

136
00:10:26,980 --> 00:10:30,040
I said, "No, but they tell me
it's really bad."

137
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She's like, "Right. Have you seen
anything else made by the filmmaker?"

138
00:10:35,522 --> 00:10:41,290
I said, "No, no. Well, I saw Clerks. 
That was really funny.

139
00:10:48,769 --> 00:10:53,866
But I'm not gonna watch anything else.
I'm certainly not gonna watch this."

140
00:10:54,041 --> 00:10:59,172
And she's like, "What's your name?"
And I was like, "Bryan Johnson."

141
00:11:00,180 --> 00:11:03,445
You know, and Bryan's like,
"Oh, shit."

142
00:11:03,984 --> 00:11:06,953
And she goes, "Do you have ID?"

143
00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:11,682
And I said, "Yeah."
And she's like, "Can I see it?"

144
00:11:11,859 --> 00:11:16,023
I was like, "It's in my wallet,
and I didn't bring my wallet."

145
00:11:16,196 --> 00:11:20,257
She's like, "Why not?"
I was like, "Well, look at these people."

146
00:11:25,339 --> 00:11:29,867
So she took off, and she's
shooting the rest of the line.

147
00:11:30,043 --> 00:11:33,570
She's still shooting me
and whispering to the camera guy.

148
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Johnson's like,
"We should really go now."

149
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Finally, they took off. Then that
night, on the Channel 12 News...

150
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...sure enough, "Bryan Johnson"...

151
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...was talking about
how bad Dogma was.

152
00:11:52,399 --> 00:11:57,837
My mother called and was like, "There's
somebody on TV looks just like you."

153
00:12:07,381 --> 00:12:12,580
I'm sorry. That was a very long answer,
has nothing to do with your question.

154
00:12:12,753 --> 00:12:16,450
I'm working from preprogrammed bits.

155
00:12:18,025 --> 00:12:19,549
I'm Raquel Rhinestein.

156
00:12:19,726 --> 00:12:25,289
My question is: Are you ever thinking
of making a science fiction film?

157
00:12:25,465 --> 00:12:28,593
A science fiction movie.
I don't know.

158
00:12:28,769 --> 00:12:32,671
I think I have made one already:
Chasing Amy.

159
00:12:36,410 --> 00:12:40,608
Because you go ask any lesbian,
that'll never happen.

160
00:12:44,484 --> 00:12:50,252
Even if, and probably especially because,
the dude is Ben fucking Affleck.

161
00:12:50,424 --> 00:12:54,383
There is a sci-fi idea in me,
I'm just nowhere near doing it yet.

162
00:12:54,561 --> 00:12:57,086
So I don't...
Somewhere down the road.

163
00:12:57,597 --> 00:13:00,259
- Say your name.
- My name's Lela.

164
00:13:00,434 --> 00:13:01,628
Lela. L-E-L-A.

165
00:13:01,802 --> 00:13:04,862
- All right.
- Well, do you...? No, that's okay.

166
00:13:05,038 --> 00:13:10,635
When you said the thing about Chasing
Amy and no self-respecting lesbian...

167
00:13:10,811 --> 00:13:15,441
It's ironic that Adrienne Rich, an
amazing poet who wrote "The Last..."

168
00:13:15,615 --> 00:13:17,879
Are you coming out?

169
00:13:20,821 --> 00:13:24,985
- They all know me. I'm... Anyway... 
- Are you out?

170
00:13:25,158 --> 00:13:27,524
Yeah.

171
00:13:39,072 --> 00:13:42,564
Calm down. Calm down. Calm down.

172
00:13:44,044 --> 00:13:48,572
This is college. You all act like
you've never seen a lesbian before.

173
00:13:48,882 --> 00:13:52,841
- So the Chasing Amy question was...?
- I'll rephrase it, given what's happened.

174
00:13:53,020 --> 00:13:58,925
I disliked Chasing Amy, even though
I loved Clerks and your movies a lot.

175
00:13:59,092 --> 00:14:01,560
I think you're done. Next!

176
00:14:02,796 --> 00:14:06,994
I did feel like it made the point
that all a lesbian needs...

177
00:14:07,167 --> 00:14:10,398
...is a good deep-dicking.
- Did you? It's an excellent point!

178
00:14:12,072 --> 00:14:14,836
- No. No. No. No.
- Do you...?

179
00:14:15,008 --> 00:14:17,772
I'm not saying that is
an excellent point.

180
00:14:17,944 --> 00:14:22,381
It's an excellent point you're bringing up.
I've heard this one. Can I...?

181
00:14:22,549 --> 00:14:24,949
I let you go on for, like, two hours.

182
00:14:25,118 --> 00:14:28,417
It is like The Kevin Smith Show.

183
00:14:28,822 --> 00:14:33,885
My feelings on that have been the same
since 1996 when I wrote it...

184
00:14:34,061 --> 00:14:37,827
...all the way up to this very moment
when you said that.

185
00:14:37,998 --> 00:14:40,796
I don't see how someone
can say, like:

186
00:14:40,967 --> 00:14:46,030
"The film strengthens the point that
all any lesbian needs is one good man."

187
00:14:46,206 --> 00:14:48,674
- Is that what you were saying?
- Sort of.

188
00:14:48,842 --> 00:14:53,939
Okay, but we have the idiot character
in the movie, Banky, say that...

189
00:14:54,114 --> 00:14:56,981
...hence deflating the argument.

190
00:14:57,150 --> 00:15:01,644
We put those words into the guy
who's always wrong in the movie.

191
00:15:01,822 --> 00:15:06,521
When the idiot says that, didn't you
get that that's what I was saying?

192
00:15:06,693 --> 00:15:10,720
I got that point, but do you find it
weird that you speak to audiences...

193
00:15:10,897 --> 00:15:15,300
...who feel comfortable yelling "Show us
your tits!" to a woman in the crowd...?

194
00:15:15,469 --> 00:15:17,130
Very, very uncomfortable.

195
00:15:17,304 --> 00:15:21,934
It wasn't maybe your fault, but I think
that movie put that out there.

196
00:15:22,109 --> 00:15:26,102
Stop it. Stop it. This is political.
Very uncomfortable.

197
00:15:26,279 --> 00:15:30,909
- That has nothing to do with this.
- Well, I think it does.

198
00:15:31,084 --> 00:15:35,418
When I first saw the movie,
I thought it was dumb but harmless.

199
00:15:35,589 --> 00:15:38,149
But when I... But I saw that the...

200
00:15:39,359 --> 00:15:42,055
Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait.
Come on, come on!

201
00:15:42,229 --> 00:15:45,198
This is excellent.
Excellent, candid point.

202
00:15:45,365 --> 00:15:48,334
I'm pissed we didn't know you
when we were making it.

203
00:15:48,502 --> 00:15:52,871
That would've been excellent
for the tag line: "Dumb but harmless.

204
00:15:58,178 --> 00:16:01,773
Some bi-curious girl from college."
That would've been cool.

205
00:16:01,948 --> 00:16:05,406
- Finish your point.
- 'Cause all I need is a deep-dicking?

206
00:16:05,585 --> 00:16:07,780
- Pardon?
- Nothing.

207
00:16:09,856 --> 00:16:14,589
I think... Obviously you can't control
the way people take the movie.

208
00:16:14,761 --> 00:16:21,166
But it was frustrating to be a lesbian
at that point when that film came out.

209
00:16:21,368 --> 00:16:23,768
- How old are you?
- I'm 22.

210
00:16:23,937 --> 00:16:26,963
You were...
So that's going back four years?

211
00:16:27,140 --> 00:16:30,132
So I was 18. Did you know you were
straight when you were 18?

212
00:16:30,310 --> 00:16:31,368
No.

213
00:16:32,479 --> 00:16:34,379
Ma'am, I'm still not sure.

214
00:16:39,419 --> 00:16:43,651
And I've got a wife and child.
How irresponsible is that?

215
00:16:44,824 --> 00:16:48,555
All I can do is make movies
the way I wanna make them...

216
00:16:48,728 --> 00:16:52,220
...the way I wanna see them,
as entertaining as possible.

217
00:16:52,399 --> 00:16:56,563
If I can whip a message in there,
that's more than most cats do.

218
00:16:56,736 --> 00:17:01,764
And I feel good. I can sleep
with myself, and a man or a woman...

219
00:17:01,942 --> 00:17:05,503
...at night because of that.
The movies we've made...

220
00:17:05,679 --> 00:17:09,581
...there's always been gay content
in there, would you agree?

221
00:17:09,749 --> 00:17:12,115
You think it's dumb but harmless.

222
00:17:12,285 --> 00:17:17,313
Some people think it's a breakthrough
that really enabled them to come out.

223
00:17:17,490 --> 00:17:20,891
Large portions of the gay community
love what we do.

224
00:17:21,061 --> 00:17:25,225
A very small pocket is like,
"He's a closet fag-hater"...

225
00:17:25,398 --> 00:17:29,425
...not knowing the amount of cock
that I chug myself.

226
00:17:34,774 --> 00:17:38,505
But that's none
of their fucking business.

227
00:17:38,678 --> 00:17:43,513
I've always thrown that in there because
I always felt, from Clerks forward...

228
00:17:43,683 --> 00:17:46,880
Even before I knew we were gonna
have an audience.

229
00:17:47,053 --> 00:17:49,920
When I was writing Clerks...
I have a brother. My brother's gay.

230
00:17:50,090 --> 00:17:53,719
I just outed him to everyone
at Cornell. He's very out.

231
00:17:53,893 --> 00:17:58,660
My brother and I had a discussion
when he first came out about movies...

232
00:17:58,832 --> 00:18:03,394
...and how weird it is to go to
predominately 99.9999% hetero movies...

233
00:18:03,570 --> 00:18:07,097
...and watch the guy and girl
live happily ever after...

234
00:18:07,274 --> 00:18:10,243
...never see himself represented
on the screen...

235
00:18:10,410 --> 00:18:14,107
...unless it's a very swishy
stereotype, i. E. The Birdcage.

236
00:18:14,281 --> 00:18:18,012
Or an ice pick killer.
I thought, "That's pretty shitty.

237
00:18:18,184 --> 00:18:23,053
He can't get into a flick on any level
because he doesn't feel represented."

238
00:18:23,223 --> 00:18:25,919
So I said, "I'm gonna throw a little
gay content in the flicks...

239
00:18:26,092 --> 00:18:28,890
...so my brother will know
it was in there for him."

240
00:18:29,062 --> 00:18:30,825
Because, why the fuck not?

241
00:18:30,997 --> 00:18:34,023
When I found out we had
an audience, I said:

242
00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:37,533
"Fuck it. I'm throwing
lots of gay content in."

243
00:18:37,704 --> 00:18:41,663
Because they're sitting there...
And yes, they are predominately young.

244
00:18:41,841 --> 00:18:47,541
And I do have fans that are like,
"Great movies, man! Wanna get high?"

245
00:18:47,714 --> 00:18:51,616
I also do have some fans,
nobody in this room, mind you...

246
00:18:51,785 --> 00:18:54,777
...that are like,
"Love those movies, man.

247
00:18:54,954 --> 00:18:58,651
But why is there so much
gay stuff in them? Gay's bad."

248
00:18:58,825 --> 00:19:04,058
I always try to fuck with their heads.
Case in point was Chasing Amy.

249
00:19:04,230 --> 00:19:07,222
We make Chasing Amy and have
our first test-screening.

250
00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:11,734
They keep 10 people around to do a
focus group. Ever been to a focus group?

251
00:19:11,905 --> 00:19:14,373
They keep 10 people
and ask them questions.

252
00:19:14,541 --> 00:19:17,669
From 200, they keep 10 around
and ask them questions:

253
00:19:17,844 --> 00:19:21,905
"What did or didn't you like
about the movie? Tell us why."

254
00:19:22,082 --> 00:19:26,951
They give that data to the filmmaker,
and they're like, "Do it better!"

255
00:19:27,120 --> 00:19:31,921
Horrible fucking process. But it's
interesting to hear what people say.

256
00:19:32,092 --> 00:19:35,425
So they talked to one cat
in the audience. He's like...

257
00:19:35,595 --> 00:19:38,189
I won't forget this guy.

258
00:19:38,365 --> 00:19:42,131
He's like, "I like Kevin Smith's movies.
I am a Kevin Smith character.

259
00:19:42,302 --> 00:19:44,964
I am Brodie.
I love the mall and comics.

260
00:19:45,138 --> 00:19:47,936
And I wouldn't fuck
Shannen Doherty either."

261
00:19:48,742 --> 00:19:52,473
If you saw this motherfucker,
he wouldn't have a chance.

262
00:19:52,645 --> 00:19:57,207
I'm in the back, 'cause you can't reveal
yourself or that'll skew the data.

263
00:19:57,384 --> 00:19:59,875
I'm sitting there, chuckling and
listening, and he's like:

264
00:20:00,053 --> 00:20:04,217
"I identify with the Banky character
because it's Jason Lee again.

265
00:20:04,391 --> 00:20:07,849
I dig him, I'm with him, and suddenly,
boom, the dude's gay.

266
00:20:08,027 --> 00:20:10,291
What the fuck's that say about me?"

267
00:20:12,532 --> 00:20:18,027
From the back, below my chair, I was
like, "It means you're fucking gay!"

268
00:20:21,241 --> 00:20:26,304
And the point of the story,
that man is Elton John.

269
00:20:29,783 --> 00:20:33,344
The point is that cat...
Of course, I didn't follow him.

270
00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:38,082
I didn't tag him like a shark and
follow him for the rest of his life.

271
00:20:38,258 --> 00:20:41,352
But the dude had to make
a decision right there.

272
00:20:41,528 --> 00:20:45,658
He either continues being a fan of
our stuff or continues being like:

273
00:20:45,832 --> 00:20:50,201
"Fucking gays scare me. Any dick
that's not mine terrifies me."

274
00:20:50,370 --> 00:20:52,770
Chances are the dude stuck around.

275
00:20:52,939 --> 00:20:55,908
Because we've sold a shitload
of merchandise at our website.

276
00:20:56,075 --> 00:20:57,804
He's gotta be one of them.

277
00:20:57,977 --> 00:21:02,380
I always like to think of it as, like,
I've got them sitting there...

278
00:21:02,549 --> 00:21:04,414
...give them a message, a moral...

279
00:21:04,584 --> 00:21:08,111
...my view of the world.
That's what good filmmakers do.

280
00:21:08,288 --> 00:21:11,382
You can't change or cure the world.
You can say:

281
00:21:11,558 --> 00:21:14,959
"This is it through my eyes.
Do you agree or not?"

282
00:21:15,128 --> 00:21:18,825
And a lot of people seem to agree.
Not a lot, you know.

283
00:21:18,998 --> 00:21:24,834
We've got fans, so they're smart. We'll
lead the world into the 21 st century.

284
00:21:25,004 --> 00:21:28,235
And I'll make a profit on their backs.

285
00:21:32,278 --> 00:21:36,078
You can't be responsible
for your audience to some degree.

286
00:21:36,249 --> 00:21:40,379
Hopefully they get it. If they don't,
you can't hammer it at them.

287
00:21:40,553 --> 00:21:44,421
That's when the movie stops being
entertaining. You're being didactic.

288
00:21:44,591 --> 00:21:47,025
You're just like,
"This is this, that is that."

289
00:21:47,193 --> 00:21:50,629
Dogma runs very dangerously close
to being a didactic movie.

290
00:21:50,797 --> 00:21:55,996
But thankfully, every once in a while,
Mewes makes an ass-fucking joke.

291
00:21:56,169 --> 00:21:58,467
People forget we're talking about
Jesus for a little while.

292
00:21:58,638 --> 00:22:01,698
So it's a dangerous line,
but give me credit.

293
00:22:01,875 --> 00:22:06,812
I have done flicks where they're
far more gay-friendly than most. Yeah?

294
00:22:06,980 --> 00:22:08,277
Yeah.

295
00:22:08,448 --> 00:22:09,745
Thanks.

296
00:22:17,090 --> 00:22:18,717
Don't. Please, stop.

297
00:22:22,662 --> 00:22:28,100
Lela's the smartest one here, because
now everyone knows that she's gay.

298
00:22:28,268 --> 00:22:31,829
So she can easily get a date
at the end of this thing.

299
00:22:32,272 --> 00:22:36,140
People are like,
"You're that gay chick. I'm gay too."

300
00:22:36,309 --> 00:22:39,801
What are you doing after the show...?
Wait, never mind.

301
00:22:39,979 --> 00:22:43,346
See, you can't hold me
responsible for that.

302
00:22:44,817 --> 00:22:45,977
Rock on.

303
00:22:48,488 --> 00:22:52,254
That's a tough balancing act.
Tough balancing act.

304
00:22:52,425 --> 00:22:54,985
Don't like him, need his money.

305
00:23:00,900 --> 00:23:05,928
Just kidding. All right, enough being
political, let's do some dick jokes.

306
00:23:06,105 --> 00:23:08,130
Who's next? This side.

307
00:23:08,308 --> 00:23:11,175
- Okay, my name is Grayden Blue.
- Again?

308
00:23:11,344 --> 00:23:13,710
- Grayden Blue.
- Grayden. All right.

309
00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:19,011
Thank you. I'm starting production
on my own movie very soon...

310
00:23:19,185 --> 00:23:24,748
...and I was wondering if you had
any advice or money for me.

311
00:23:27,627 --> 00:23:28,616
No.

312
00:23:30,630 --> 00:23:32,621
Chap Stick.

313
00:23:33,099 --> 00:23:37,229
Do you have any advice on how
to get money, funding for a film?

314
00:23:37,403 --> 00:23:39,633
Yeah. Head works a lot.

315
00:23:48,781 --> 00:23:51,079
If you don't wanna give head...

316
00:23:51,250 --> 00:23:55,812
Well, I was hoping to not have to do
that if there are easier ways.

317
00:23:56,689 --> 00:24:00,785
If you're very conservative
like yourself...

318
00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:05,329
...credit cards work very well.
You can get a bunch of credit cards.

319
00:24:05,498 --> 00:24:07,966
- I thought about that.
- Do you have any?

320
00:24:08,134 --> 00:24:09,761
I've got one.
It's maxed out already.

321
00:24:09,936 --> 00:24:11,927
- Which is it?
- It's a MasterCard.

322
00:24:12,105 --> 00:24:13,265
- Is it yours or parents'?
- Mine.

323
00:24:13,439 --> 00:24:17,205
- Is it? So you can build on that.
- Yeah.

324
00:24:17,710 --> 00:24:20,941
- Do you have a job?
- Not at the moment.

325
00:24:21,648 --> 00:24:24,208
Here's what you do:
Find a video store...

326
00:24:24,384 --> 00:24:26,614
...like, a mom-and-pop store,
not a chain.

327
00:24:26,786 --> 00:24:30,654
- You don't wanna work at a Blockbuster.
- Dear God, no.

328
00:24:31,157 --> 00:24:33,591
Some of these people
do want to work there.

329
00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:36,354
Make sure you work the desk
so that you answer the phone.

330
00:24:36,529 --> 00:24:40,522
Get a bunch of credit card
applications. Fill them all out.

331
00:24:40,700 --> 00:24:45,262
Say that you're the manager of the
store and you make $50,000 a year.

332
00:24:45,438 --> 00:24:50,341
Then, when they call in to check,
say, "Yes, he works here...

333
00:24:50,510 --> 00:24:54,571
...he is the manager,
and he makes $50,000 a year."

334
00:24:54,747 --> 00:24:58,239
They start sending you credit cards.
That's how I got all mine.

335
00:24:58,418 --> 00:25:01,182
I'd answer the phone
at RST Video and be like:

336
00:25:01,354 --> 00:25:05,415
"Kevin Smith is an excellent manager.
Makes $50,000 a year.

337
00:25:05,591 --> 00:25:09,550
The highest-paid manager
in the video business."

338
00:25:09,729 --> 00:25:12,357
Credit cards are
the best scam on earth.

339
00:25:12,532 --> 00:25:15,899
Get a bunch of credit cards.
That's my advice.

340
00:25:16,069 --> 00:25:17,900
- Cool. Thank you.
- All right.

341
00:25:18,771 --> 00:25:22,605
You're so polite. You're gonna applaud
for everybody that asks a question?

342
00:25:22,775 --> 00:25:27,610
Just like, "It was a good question.
Terrible answer, good question."

343
00:25:27,780 --> 00:25:31,511
For Clerks, you maxed out
your cards and borrowed money.

344
00:25:31,684 --> 00:25:35,950
That's a big leap. What kept you
going while you were making the film?

345
00:25:36,122 --> 00:25:41,788
It just seemed, like, to make sense
at the time. Like, I was a kid...

346
00:25:46,265 --> 00:25:47,323
Sorry.

347
00:25:49,001 --> 00:25:52,164
I was trying to give him
something from my heart...

348
00:25:52,338 --> 00:25:54,499
...and you're sitting there like:

349
00:26:02,715 --> 00:26:06,014
- Are you done?
- I'm done. I'm...

350
00:26:06,185 --> 00:26:10,849
It just felt like it was
the time to do it. I was young.

351
00:26:11,023 --> 00:26:12,650
I was 22, 23 at the time.

352
00:26:12,825 --> 00:26:17,353
If you're gonna do something stupid
like charge a bunch of film stuff...

353
00:26:17,530 --> 00:26:21,830
...on your credit cards,
then do it while you're kind of young.

354
00:26:22,068 --> 00:26:24,127
- My name's Geek.
- What is it?

355
00:26:24,303 --> 00:26:28,034
Geek. You said that sucking dick is
a great way to make money.

356
00:26:28,207 --> 00:26:31,904
I wanted to know if I could
suck yours for, like, five bucks?

357
00:26:32,979 --> 00:26:35,880
All right. Wait. Wait. Wait.

358
00:26:36,482 --> 00:26:39,918
- Anyway... 
- Wait. Wait. Wait. Whose five bucks?

359
00:26:40,086 --> 00:26:42,953
Well, I wanna get paid,
because I'm broke now.

360
00:26:43,122 --> 00:26:45,181
So you want me to pay you $5.00.

361
00:26:45,358 --> 00:26:49,089
If you want me to pay you
to suck your dick, I might do it...

362
00:26:49,262 --> 00:26:52,561
...just so I could say I sucked
Kevin Smith's dick.

363
00:26:54,934 --> 00:26:56,424
- Anyway...
- Why...? Wait.

364
00:26:56,602 --> 00:26:58,695
Why does everyone boo that?

365
00:26:58,871 --> 00:27:02,830
- Sucking dick is a good thing.
- You guys are just jealous.

366
00:27:03,009 --> 00:27:06,775
My real question is you were
supposed to make Clerks 2...

367
00:27:06,946 --> 00:27:09,380
...before you made
Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back.

368
00:27:09,549 --> 00:27:13,041
Whatever happened to that script?
Could it be found in...?

369
00:27:13,219 --> 00:27:17,679
I'm still wrapping my head around
the notion of you sucking my dick.

370
00:27:18,925 --> 00:27:21,257
- And your name's Geek?
- My name's Geek.

371
00:27:21,427 --> 00:27:23,520
G, double E, K, I think.

372
00:27:23,696 --> 00:27:27,029
- Do you know the term's origin?
- No. Wanna explain it?

373
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:30,294
- A geek bites the heads off chickens.
- I could do that.

374
00:27:30,469 --> 00:27:34,337
I would never let you suck my dick
with a name like Geek.

375
00:27:40,279 --> 00:27:43,077
Now if your name was Ron...

376
00:27:46,919 --> 00:27:49,649
Anyway, so what happened
to the script?

377
00:27:49,956 --> 00:27:53,119
- With which script?
- Clerks.

378
00:27:53,459 --> 00:27:55,620
What happened to
the script for Clerks 2?

379
00:27:55,962 --> 00:27:59,728
Clerks 2. You can't get up there and
start talking about dick-sucking...

380
00:27:59,899 --> 00:28:03,164
...then segue into a question.
- You opened yourself up for it.

381
00:28:03,336 --> 00:28:05,770
- Pardon?
- You said that sucking dick...

382
00:28:05,938 --> 00:28:09,271
...was a great way to make money.
I wanna make money.

383
00:28:09,442 --> 00:28:14,903
- I didn't open myself up for anything.
- Sit the fuck down!

384
00:28:17,116 --> 00:28:20,176
They're sending you a message, Geek.

385
00:28:20,853 --> 00:28:24,414
Clerks 2 became
Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back.

386
00:28:27,226 --> 00:28:29,091
I got five bucks!

387
00:28:39,438 --> 00:28:44,637
Another reason you'll never see my
name next to Scorsese, Woody Allen...

388
00:28:44,810 --> 00:28:47,745
...and Spike Lee.
Scorsese speaks a lot at NYU...

389
00:28:47,914 --> 00:28:52,874
...and I'm damn skippy nobody's ever
like, "I'll suck your dick for $5.00!"

390
00:29:00,459 --> 00:29:04,156
Not during the lecture, anyway.

391
00:29:04,330 --> 00:29:06,025
You. Your turn.

392
00:29:06,198 --> 00:29:09,133
That's all right,
that kid stole my question.

393
00:29:10,870 --> 00:29:12,360
That's good.

394
00:29:14,140 --> 00:29:16,734
I was just curious...

395
00:29:16,909 --> 00:29:21,005
...you've had run-ins with the Catholic
League and, most recently, GLAAD.

396
00:29:21,180 --> 00:29:23,171
- I was curious...
- Isn't that weird?

397
00:29:23,349 --> 00:29:27,649
I had my run-ins with GLAAD, yet
I considered letting him suck my dick.

398
00:29:27,820 --> 00:29:30,755
Where's GLAAD now, you know?

399
00:29:31,724 --> 00:29:37,094
I was curious, have you had...? Besides
the whole round with Michael Eisner...

400
00:29:37,263 --> 00:29:41,825
...have you had any confrontational
experiences within the industry?

401
00:29:42,001 --> 00:29:44,868
Paul Thomas Anderson
getting a little angry...

402
00:29:45,037 --> 00:29:49,770
...at your public bash of Magnolia?
- Not at all. I ran into Paul...

403
00:29:49,942 --> 00:29:54,106
...as I was getting my physical
for Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back.

404
00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:57,681
- Isn't it weird that...? Why's that funny?
- I don't know.

405
00:29:57,850 --> 00:30:01,809
You're like, "You and 'physical'
should never be in the same... "

406
00:30:01,988 --> 00:30:05,446
When you're about to direct a movie,
they make you take a physical.

407
00:30:05,624 --> 00:30:07,592
They have to insure the director...

408
00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:10,991
...in case the director drops dead
of a heart attack...

409
00:30:11,163 --> 00:30:14,655
...if he smokes a lot
and eats really bad food.

410
00:30:14,834 --> 00:30:19,965
So I'm getting my physical. I'm sitting
there filling out the paperwork...

411
00:30:20,139 --> 00:30:23,666
...wondering if I'll have
to have my balls grabbed...

412
00:30:23,843 --> 00:30:26,869
...wondering if I'll have to pay for it.
- Five bucks!

413
00:30:27,046 --> 00:30:29,480
Or if he'll pay me.

414
00:30:30,683 --> 00:30:35,416
I hear a guy go, "Kevin, hello."
I look, and it's Paul Thomas Anderson.

415
00:30:35,588 --> 00:30:38,716
I was like, "How are you?"
He was like, "Good."

416
00:30:38,891 --> 00:30:42,019
I was like, "Just getting my physical."
He said, "Me too."

417
00:30:42,194 --> 00:30:45,857
I said, "What you shooting?"
He said, "Movie with Adam Sandler."

418
00:30:46,032 --> 00:30:48,227
He says,
"Good to see you," and he left.

419
00:30:48,401 --> 00:30:51,564
And after he left I was just like,
"Oh, my God.

420
00:30:51,737 --> 00:30:54,968
That was the motherfucker
I bitch-slapped on the Internet."

421
00:30:55,141 --> 00:30:57,200
And he was so classy, you know?

422
00:30:57,376 --> 00:31:00,607
I wasn't even looking.
The dude was behind me.

423
00:31:00,780 --> 00:31:04,682
He could have come up behind me
with a fucking chair and been like:

424
00:31:05,117 --> 00:31:10,020
He was like, "Hey, Kevin." And he
could have then hit me with a chair.

425
00:31:10,189 --> 00:31:12,623
So I'd see it was him.
That would've been my move.

426
00:31:12,792 --> 00:31:15,386
I would have been like,
"Hey, Paul."

427
00:31:15,561 --> 00:31:20,328
If he said something about me.
But he was real classy. That was cool.

428
00:31:20,499 --> 00:31:24,026
I felt bad for my comment.
I was like, "I shouldn't have said that."

429
00:31:24,203 --> 00:31:26,433
Any run-ins with studio execs?

430
00:31:26,605 --> 00:31:31,201
- Who actually did hit me with a chair?
- Yeah. No.

431
00:31:31,610 --> 00:31:37,014
I guess, having to make compromises... 
Are there things you held back...

432
00:31:37,183 --> 00:31:41,483
...because of test audiences,
executive decisions, things like that?

433
00:31:45,191 --> 00:31:49,890
You got all serious on me.
We were having fun.

434
00:31:50,362 --> 00:31:54,059
When I worked on Mallrats,
there were notes I didn't like.

435
00:31:54,233 --> 00:31:57,896
Since it was my second movie,
I wound up taking them.

436
00:31:58,070 --> 00:32:03,098
I didn't find the diplomatic way around
avoiding the notes. I bought into it.

437
00:32:03,275 --> 00:32:08,235
For example, there was a scene
in Mallrats where Jay and Silent Bob...

438
00:32:08,414 --> 00:32:10,974
...and Brodie and T.S.
are in the food court...

439
00:32:11,150 --> 00:32:15,553
...talking about scars they've gotten
from going down on girls.

440
00:32:15,921 --> 00:32:20,824
When I handed in the script, they said,
"No audience will find this funny.

441
00:32:20,993 --> 00:32:24,258
It's too racy.
This doesn't belong in a movie."

442
00:32:24,430 --> 00:32:29,424
I was like, "All right." I pulled
it out. I put it in a better movie.

443
00:32:30,202 --> 00:32:34,935
Then there was a sequence where Jay
and Silent Bob throughout the movie...

444
00:32:35,107 --> 00:32:37,940
...were running around
the fucking mall and shit.

445
00:32:38,110 --> 00:32:41,841
One of the running gags
in the first and second draft...

446
00:32:42,014 --> 00:32:46,747
...was they were constantly busting in
on Gwen when she was trying on shit.

447
00:32:46,919 --> 00:32:50,685
And one of the times,
they were in a booth next to her...

448
00:32:50,856 --> 00:32:53,256
...and they were peeking
through a hole in the wall.

449
00:32:53,425 --> 00:32:57,054
It was my homage
to that great cinema epic Porky's.

450
00:32:57,229 --> 00:33:00,790
And Silent Bob starts jerking off.
And he jerks off...

451
00:33:00,966 --> 00:33:03,434
...and he shoots up in the air...

452
00:33:04,069 --> 00:33:07,402
...and it comes over
and lands in Gwen's hair.

453
00:33:07,573 --> 00:33:09,507
She screams, and they
go tearing-ass out.

454
00:33:09,675 --> 00:33:13,236
The next time you see Gwen, when
she meets up with T.S. and Brodie...

455
00:33:13,412 --> 00:33:16,404
...she still has it matted
in her hair.

456
00:33:16,582 --> 00:33:20,518
That was in the script.
They were like, "That's not funny."

457
00:33:22,254 --> 00:33:24,449
I swear, this is a true story.

458
00:33:24,623 --> 00:33:27,990
"That's not funny.
Nobody will pay to see that.

459
00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:32,096
You will turn off an audience
with come-in-the-hair-type jokes."

460
00:33:32,264 --> 00:33:37,167
So I took it out, and then somebody
else put it in their movie.

461
00:33:37,336 --> 00:33:40,794
They didn't take my idea.
Great minds think alike.

462
00:33:40,973 --> 00:33:44,636
They did it, and their movie
made 120 million bucks.

463
00:33:44,810 --> 00:33:49,179
I was perturbed about that. But that
was the only time, during Mallrats.

464
00:33:49,348 --> 00:33:52,374
We were so new to the process,
we believed whatever we were told.

465
00:33:52,551 --> 00:33:56,385
We wanted to make it for $2 million.
They were like, "lt'll be $6 million."

466
00:33:56,555 --> 00:34:00,047
Why? We don't have
to make a movie for 6 million.

467
00:34:00,226 --> 00:34:04,959
It's a couple of kids running around
a mall. It doesn't cost that much.

468
00:34:05,130 --> 00:34:08,588
It's not like it has
a rubber poop monster in it.

469
00:34:08,767 --> 00:34:13,261
They said, "You can't make a movie for
less." I said, "We made one for $28,000."

470
00:34:13,439 --> 00:34:16,670
They're like,
"That's not a real movie, is it?"

471
00:34:17,142 --> 00:34:22,079
I should have known right there. I sat
there going, "I guess you're right."

472
00:34:22,681 --> 00:34:25,514
Maybe it'll be a cartoon one day.

473
00:34:26,252 --> 00:34:29,710
So we bought into it.
You grow older, and you're like:

474
00:34:29,888 --> 00:34:34,655
"Wait, I have more power than this."
You start ignoring certain things.

475
00:34:34,827 --> 00:34:38,957
Particularly bad notes
about removing come-in-hair jokes.

476
00:34:39,331 --> 00:34:41,390
- Thanks.
- Thanks.

477
00:34:42,635 --> 00:34:45,570
On the topic that you
brought out on comic books...

478
00:34:45,738 --> 00:34:49,435
...the "true Hollywood story"
with Superman Lives...

479
00:34:49,608 --> 00:34:53,704
...and whether it was you who didn't want
Tim Burton to go down with it...

480
00:34:53,879 --> 00:34:58,373
...or if he just wasn't happy with what
you'd done with it... What's your take?

481
00:34:58,550 --> 00:35:00,541
This is going back a few years.

482
00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:03,711
In '96, '97, I was commissioned
by Warner Bros...

483
00:35:03,889 --> 00:35:07,325
...to write a script
for a new Superman movie.

484
00:35:07,493 --> 00:35:13,295
And how it came about, I think,
was that somebody saw Mallrats...

485
00:35:13,465 --> 00:35:15,330
...somebody at Warner Bros...

486
00:35:15,501 --> 00:35:18,629
...and was just like...
Watched Brodie and T.S. talk...

487
00:35:18,804 --> 00:35:22,137
...about the Kryptonite condom,
and they were like:

488
00:35:22,308 --> 00:35:25,539
"This guy seems to know
a lot about Superman."

489
00:35:27,413 --> 00:35:29,813
So I got called in for a meeting
at Warner Bros.

490
00:35:29,982 --> 00:35:33,884
They said, "There's a couple projects
that you can rewrite."

491
00:35:34,053 --> 00:35:36,886
At this point, the script for
Chasing Amy had started circulating.

492
00:35:37,056 --> 00:35:41,652
People were like, "He can write."
So they offered me rewrite work.

493
00:35:41,994 --> 00:35:45,828
They said, "We have three projects."
I said, "What are they?"

494
00:35:45,998 --> 00:35:51,402
"One is a remake of an Outer Limits
episode called 'The Architects of Fear. '

495
00:35:51,570 --> 00:35:55,768
The second
is Beetlejuice Goes Hawaiian. "

496
00:35:56,775 --> 00:36:00,711
I was like, "Didn't we say all we needed
to say with the first Beetlejuice?

497
00:36:00,879 --> 00:36:03,473
Must we go tropical?"

498
00:36:04,850 --> 00:36:09,048
And the third was a project
called Superman Reborn.

499
00:36:09,221 --> 00:36:14,022
That's what interested me. I was like,
"You're gonna make another Superman?

500
00:36:14,193 --> 00:36:18,425
I'd love to do that." And they said,
"Well, that's a long shot.

501
00:36:18,597 --> 00:36:22,363
I can't give you that right here.
That has to go through lots of people...

502
00:36:22,534 --> 00:36:26,630
...because it's a big franchise."
I said, "What do I have to do?

503
00:36:26,805 --> 00:36:30,741
Whose fucking dick do I have
to suck to get this job?"

504
00:36:31,477 --> 00:36:34,412
And thankfully, he didn't say his.

505
00:36:34,580 --> 00:36:37,481
He said, "Why don't you take
the script home...

506
00:36:37,649 --> 00:36:40,516
...read it, and tell me
what you think of it."

507
00:36:40,686 --> 00:36:42,745
I read the script and was like:

508
00:36:42,921 --> 00:36:46,482
"This is fucking terrible.
This is a horrible script."

509
00:36:46,658 --> 00:36:48,592
It was really, really bad.

510
00:36:48,761 --> 00:36:51,855
It was kind of like
the Batman TV-show version...

511
00:36:52,030 --> 00:36:54,658
...of a Superman movie.
Very campy.

512
00:36:54,833 --> 00:36:58,098
I went back to Warner Bros.,
sat down with the dude.

513
00:36:58,270 --> 00:37:02,536
He was like, "What did you think?"
I said, "It was quite bad."

514
00:37:02,708 --> 00:37:07,372
He said, "'Bad' meaning good?"
I said, "No, bad. Fucking terrible."

515
00:37:07,546 --> 00:37:11,676
And I'm going on for about five
minutes how bad the script is:

516
00:37:11,850 --> 00:37:16,549
"Did you pay somebody to write this?
Is the writer somebody's cousin?

517
00:37:16,722 --> 00:37:19,316
Who let somebody write this script?

518
00:37:19,491 --> 00:37:22,790
You paid this dude?
Can you get the money back?

519
00:37:22,961 --> 00:37:24,792
Because this is horrendous."

520
00:37:24,963 --> 00:37:29,627
He was looking at me, nodding and
going, "Well, thanks for coming in."

521
00:37:29,802 --> 00:37:35,707
I called my friend Walter in Jersey.
He's a big comic book fan. I was like:

522
00:37:35,874 --> 00:37:40,777
"I went into Warner Bros. And told
them their Superman script sucked.

523
00:37:42,181 --> 00:37:45,617
Revel, revel. Jersey, represent.

524
00:37:46,185 --> 00:37:51,316
Fuck Hollywood!" Walter's like, "Why
didn't you offer to write it better?"

525
00:37:51,490 --> 00:37:54,584
And I was like:

526
00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:57,957
Because I hadn't thought of that.
I said, "Fuck!"

527
00:37:58,130 --> 00:38:02,590
But the next day my agent called:
"They want to see you at Warner Bros."

528
00:38:02,768 --> 00:38:04,429
I said, "Really? All right."

529
00:38:04,603 --> 00:38:08,300
So I went back. It was the same dude
I talked to originally...

530
00:38:08,474 --> 00:38:12,433
...and there was another dude.
The first guy was like:

531
00:38:12,611 --> 00:38:17,275
"Do me a favor, tell him what you
told me about the Superman script."

532
00:38:17,449 --> 00:38:22,250
And I was like, "All right. It's bad.
Sucks. Did your cousin write it?"

533
00:38:22,488 --> 00:38:25,457
Did that for about five minutes,
and they just nodded...

534
00:38:25,624 --> 00:38:29,355
...and then they're like,
"Well, thanks for coming in."

535
00:38:29,528 --> 00:38:32,258
I went home. The next day,
got another call from my agent:

536
00:38:32,431 --> 00:38:37,164
"They wanna meet with you at
Warner Bros. Again." I said, "All right."

537
00:38:37,336 --> 00:38:40,134
Because I really didn't
have much to do.

538
00:38:40,739 --> 00:38:45,233
So I go back, and it's the two dudes
and now there's a third dude.

539
00:38:45,410 --> 00:38:49,813
They're all in a semi-circle of chairs,
and the first two guys are like:

540
00:38:49,982 --> 00:38:53,748
"Tell him what you told us
about the Superman script."

541
00:38:53,919 --> 00:38:57,719
I just imagined it as a kind
of water cooler situation.

542
00:38:57,890 --> 00:39:02,054
One guy's standing at the water cooler
with somebody, and he was like:

543
00:39:02,227 --> 00:39:05,958
"You should hear what the Clerks dude
said about the Superman script."

544
00:39:06,131 --> 00:39:11,194
The other guy's like, "What'd he say?"
He's like, "Fuck it. Just bring him in."

545
00:39:15,607 --> 00:39:19,509
So I told them again, and it went on
like that for a whole week.

546
00:39:19,678 --> 00:39:23,637
I'd go back, there'd be another
person. I kept saying the same shit.

547
00:39:23,815 --> 00:39:27,251
Finally, I got to the guy at the top,
Lorenzo di Bonaventura.

548
00:39:27,419 --> 00:39:30,547
Now there's six to eight guys
at a large table.

549
00:39:30,722 --> 00:39:35,955
They're all like, "Tell Lorenzo
what you told us about Superman. "

550
00:39:36,128 --> 00:39:40,588
I did my spiel, and Lorenzo said,
"What would you do differently?"

551
00:39:40,766 --> 00:39:45,294
I said, "I hadn't thought about it,
but you could try this and that."

552
00:39:45,470 --> 00:39:50,339
He's like, "We'll give you a shot at it."
I said, "All right. Awesome."

553
00:39:50,509 --> 00:39:53,501
He goes, "It's pending
approval of the producer."

554
00:39:53,679 --> 00:39:59,413
I said, "Who's the producer?"
They said, "Jon Peters. Meet with him."

555
00:39:59,585 --> 00:40:03,487
Jon Peters, if you don't know,
is a producer on movies like...

556
00:40:03,655 --> 00:40:06,783
He was an exec producer
on Rain Man.

557
00:40:06,959 --> 00:40:09,621
He was a producer on Batman.

558
00:40:09,795 --> 00:40:15,290
He was a producer on The Main Event,
the Barbra Streisand boxing movie.

559
00:40:16,068 --> 00:40:20,368
He got his start in the business
as Barbra Streisand's hairdresser.

560
00:40:20,539 --> 00:40:22,598
One day, he became a producer.

561
00:40:22,774 --> 00:40:26,540
Because in Hollywood,
you just kind of fail upwards.

562
00:40:29,715 --> 00:40:32,582
So anyway, I'm going
to meet Jon Peters.

563
00:40:32,751 --> 00:40:36,983
I go to his place. And he
was a hard-core producer on Batman.

564
00:40:37,155 --> 00:40:42,024
It was his baby from beginning to end.
When you get to his house, it shows...

565
00:40:42,194 --> 00:40:45,220
...because it's like driving up
to Wayne Manor.

566
00:40:45,397 --> 00:40:48,366
This is a big mansion,
through woods and shit.

567
00:40:48,533 --> 00:40:52,594
It looks like there's
a holographic cave to one side.

568
00:40:52,771 --> 00:40:57,902
So they bring you in, and he shows up
wearing short tennis shorts and shit.

569
00:40:58,076 --> 00:41:01,204
He's a built dude
with a perfect head of hair...

570
00:41:01,380 --> 00:41:04,474
...like well-quaffed, or coiffed.

571
00:41:04,650 --> 00:41:09,849
He says, "They tell me you got
a take on Superman. " I tell it to him.

572
00:41:10,022 --> 00:41:13,480
After I'm done, he's looking
at me, nodding. He goes:

573
00:41:13,659 --> 00:41:16,457
"You know why you and me will do
a good job on Superman?"

574
00:41:16,628 --> 00:41:20,496
I said, "Why?" He's going,
"You and me, we get Superman.

575
00:41:20,666 --> 00:41:22,429
You know why?"
I said, "No."

576
00:41:22,601 --> 00:41:26,162
He said, "Because you and me,
we're from the streets."

577
00:41:32,644 --> 00:41:36,341
Now I grew up in suburban New Jersey.

578
00:41:36,515 --> 00:41:40,508
Never saw a black man
till I was about 28.

579
00:41:41,119 --> 00:41:46,318
I'm the farthest thing from the streets
there are. I grew up on a street.

580
00:41:46,491 --> 00:41:49,119
But not on "the streets."

581
00:41:49,528 --> 00:41:53,430
I'm thinking, "I'm from the suburbs,
you're a hairdresser.

582
00:41:53,598 --> 00:41:58,001
Neither of us are from the street."
But I don't say that. I want the job.

583
00:41:58,837 --> 00:42:02,864
So I said, "Who would you see
playing Superman?"

584
00:42:03,041 --> 00:42:05,566
He said,
"If I had to cast it right now?"

585
00:42:05,744 --> 00:42:09,339
I said, "Yeah."
And he said, "Sean Penn."

586
00:42:10,348 --> 00:42:14,978
And I was like, "Spicoli?"

587
00:42:17,522 --> 00:42:22,824
It was an interesting choice. He's like,
"Did you see Dead Man Walking?"

588
00:42:22,994 --> 00:42:26,088
I said, "Yeah." He's going,
"Look in his eyes in that movie.

589
00:42:26,264 --> 00:42:30,667
He's got the eyes of a violent,
caged animal, of a fucking killer."

590
00:42:30,836 --> 00:42:34,169
And I was like,
"Dude, it's Superman."

591
00:42:39,010 --> 00:42:42,741
He's like, "I got some directives
for you if you move forward...

592
00:42:42,914 --> 00:42:48,614
...some things I want you to do and
don't in the script. Three things, okay?

593
00:42:48,787 --> 00:42:51,984
One, I don't wanna see him
in that suit.

594
00:42:52,157 --> 00:42:54,717
Two, I don't wanna see him fly.

595
00:42:54,893 --> 00:42:59,296
And three, he's got to fight
a giant spider in the third act."

596
00:43:06,538 --> 00:43:11,669
I'm like, "Let's go back to one. When
you say you don't want him in the suit... "

597
00:43:11,843 --> 00:43:16,075
He's like, "Don't wanna see him in it.
It looks too faggy."

598
00:43:16,248 --> 00:43:20,207
And I was just like,
"No fags on the street, I take it."

599
00:43:21,553 --> 00:43:24,681
I don't say that because I want
the fucking job.

600
00:43:24,856 --> 00:43:27,450
He said, "I don't wanna see him fly."

601
00:43:27,626 --> 00:43:31,619
I said, "Well, the suit and flying
define Superman."

602
00:43:31,797 --> 00:43:33,765
He said, "Don't wanna see it.

603
00:43:33,932 --> 00:43:37,629
No scenes where he's flying around
carrying people. Horseshit."

604
00:43:37,803 --> 00:43:40,033
I said, "All right, no flying."

605
00:43:40,205 --> 00:43:43,538
I said, "But the giant spider
intrigues me.

606
00:43:47,179 --> 00:43:52,207
Why that?" And he's like,
"Do you know anything about spiders?"

607
00:43:52,384 --> 00:43:54,079
And I said, "No."

608
00:43:54,252 --> 00:43:58,586
He said, "They're the fiercest
killers in the insect kingdom."

609
00:44:06,565 --> 00:44:12,231
And I was like, "What does that have
to do with our non-flying Superman?"

610
00:44:12,671 --> 00:44:15,663
He said, "There's gonna
be a scene that I want.

611
00:44:15,841 --> 00:44:20,369
When I saw King Kong as a kid, there's
a scene where King Kong's revealed...

612
00:44:20,545 --> 00:44:22,775
...and it's a real big moment.
I want that in this movie.

613
00:44:22,948 --> 00:44:26,714
I want some doors to open up
and a big fucking spider's there."

614
00:44:27,586 --> 00:44:31,488
So I was just like,
"All right. I'll give it a shot."

615
00:44:31,656 --> 00:44:33,851
So I went back to Warner Bros.,
and they said:

616
00:44:34,025 --> 00:44:38,826
"We heard from him. He likes you.
We're gonna hire you and move forward.

617
00:44:38,997 --> 00:44:41,022
Did he bring up the spider?"

618
00:44:41,199 --> 00:44:44,327
I said, "He did! He brought up
the spider. Did he tell you?"

619
00:44:44,502 --> 00:44:47,164
They're like,
"Every day with the spider."

620
00:44:47,339 --> 00:44:52,402
I said, "What should I do?" They're like,
"Do it, but try not to call it a spider.

621
00:44:52,577 --> 00:44:57,412
Can you call it something else?"
I was like, "Thanagarian Snare Beast?"

622
00:44:57,582 --> 00:44:59,914
They're like, "Go."

623
00:45:01,486 --> 00:45:06,287
I was ready to go start writing, then
I was told to write an outline first.

624
00:45:06,458 --> 00:45:08,119
I was like, "What? An outline?"

625
00:45:08,293 --> 00:45:11,319
They said, "Give us an overview
so we can approve the story...

626
00:45:11,496 --> 00:45:13,930
...so you can go write the script.
We need an outline."

627
00:45:14,099 --> 00:45:16,533
I said, "Can I include dialogue?"
They said, "Yeah."

628
00:45:16,701 --> 00:45:20,603
Dialogue's about the only thing
I know how to do, so I wrote 80 pages.

629
00:45:20,772 --> 00:45:23,935
Just an 80-page outline
with tons of dialogue...

630
00:45:24,109 --> 00:45:27,237
...and very few prose passages.

631
00:45:27,412 --> 00:45:30,438
I was in L.A. all this time.
I wanted to go back to Jersey.

632
00:45:30,615 --> 00:45:33,209
I turn it in and say,
"I'm going back to Jersey.

633
00:45:33,385 --> 00:45:36,354
Let me know what you think.
You can reach me at home."

634
00:45:36,521 --> 00:45:40,787
And they said, "Well, first off,
this is 80 pages."

635
00:45:40,959 --> 00:45:42,688
I was like, "It's the outline."

636
00:45:42,861 --> 00:45:45,853
They're like,
"An outline is, like, four pages max."

637
00:45:46,665 --> 00:45:51,659
And I was like, "Well, I'm just
overcompensating 'cause I grew up fat."

638
00:45:57,475 --> 00:46:02,378
They said, "Second off, you can't leave.
You gotta read Jon the outline."

639
00:46:02,547 --> 00:46:06,210
And I said, "What do you mean...?
Read Jon the outline?"

640
00:46:06,384 --> 00:46:10,445
They said, "Yeah. He likes to have
the outlines read to him by the writer."

641
00:46:10,622 --> 00:46:14,422
And I said, "Do I have to fucking
tuck him in when I'm done too?"

642
00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:18,721
So I go back up
to fucking Wayne Manor.

643
00:46:19,097 --> 00:46:22,225
I sit down with Jon.
And Jon puts me in a chair.

644
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:25,198
He's got a couch
in this huge fucking living room.

645
00:46:25,370 --> 00:46:29,830
He lays down on the couch,
and he goes:

646
00:46:32,944 --> 00:46:35,640
And I said, "What's with that?"

647
00:46:35,814 --> 00:46:39,807
And he's like, "I like to visualize
the movie while it's being read to me.

648
00:46:39,985 --> 00:46:44,581
So I'm looking at it up here."
He was building a little screen...

649
00:46:44,889 --> 00:46:47,585
...in his mind's eye.
This was a screen.

650
00:46:47,759 --> 00:46:52,093
So I was just like, "All right.
Here we go." And I start reading.

651
00:46:52,263 --> 00:46:55,790
Since it's Superman, you tend
to use the term "Superman" a lot.

652
00:46:55,967 --> 00:46:59,767
I didn't wanna keep doing that. Being
a comic book fan, I changed it up.

653
00:46:59,938 --> 00:47:04,773
Called him Kal-El when he was on
Krypton. Man of Tomorrow, Man of Steel.

654
00:47:04,943 --> 00:47:08,208
So I'm reading the first few pages,
when he's a baby on Krypton.

655
00:47:08,380 --> 00:47:12,476
I had to redo the origin. It's Kal-El
this, Kal-El that, blah, blah, blah.

656
00:47:12,650 --> 00:47:16,882
And he's like, "Wait a second.
Wait a second. Who the fuck is Kal-EI?"

657
00:47:17,055 --> 00:47:19,888
And I was like, "Kal-El is Superman."

658
00:47:20,058 --> 00:47:25,291
He's going, "All right. Why?" And I
was like, "That's his Kryptonian name."

659
00:47:25,463 --> 00:47:29,194
And he goes:
I'm like, "Krypton's where he's from."

660
00:47:29,367 --> 00:47:33,235
He's like, "Right, right. Fucking
planet. Boom. All right, all right."

661
00:47:38,777 --> 00:47:40,574
"Go."

662
00:47:41,146 --> 00:47:43,546
So we go back into it and shit,
and I read it.

663
00:47:43,715 --> 00:47:47,412
When I'm all done, he's like, "All
right, I think we got a movie here.

664
00:47:47,585 --> 00:47:49,849
The problem:
You're missing action beats.

665
00:47:50,021 --> 00:47:52,512
Every 10 pages,
something big has to happen."

666
00:47:52,690 --> 00:47:56,217
I said, "What are you thinking about?"
He's like, "It's just an example:

667
00:47:56,394 --> 00:48:00,797
The scene where Brainiac goes to the
Fortress of Solitude to find Superman."

668
00:48:00,965 --> 00:48:04,366
Superman's dead at this point.
Hope I didn't spoil the movie.

669
00:48:04,536 --> 00:48:08,495
"Brainiac's looking for him at the
Fortress. Something should happen.

670
00:48:08,673 --> 00:48:11,904
There should be a big fight."
I'm like, "But Superman's dead."

671
00:48:12,077 --> 00:48:15,638
He's like, "I know, but can't Brainiac
fight something else up there?"

672
00:48:15,814 --> 00:48:17,475
I was like, "Well, like what?"

673
00:48:17,649 --> 00:48:21,881
He's like, "What about, like,
Superman's guards? His soldiers."

674
00:48:22,053 --> 00:48:25,614
And I'm like,
"Why would Superman need guards?

675
00:48:26,324 --> 00:48:32,695
You know, he's Superman. And plus,
it's called the Fortress of Solitude.

676
00:48:36,134 --> 00:48:37,863
Nobody's up there."

677
00:48:38,036 --> 00:48:41,472
He said, "Jesus Christ.
Where is it? Is it in the Antarctic?"

678
00:48:41,639 --> 00:48:44,574
I said, "Yeah."
He's like, "What about polar bears?"

679
00:48:45,510 --> 00:48:49,173
I was like, "Polar bears?" He said,
"Yeah. Have him fight polar bears.

680
00:48:49,347 --> 00:48:51,577
Brainiac's trying
to get in the Fortress.

681
00:48:51,749 --> 00:48:55,776
Polar bears come at him, and he just
fucking kills one, and one runs away.

682
00:48:55,954 --> 00:48:59,117
Because we don't want to piss off
the PETA people."

683
00:48:59,891 --> 00:49:05,420
I said, "You want me to write a scene
where Brainiac is wrassling polar bears?"

684
00:49:05,597 --> 00:49:08,532
He says, "Yeah.
You know anything about polar bears?"

685
00:49:08,700 --> 00:49:09,860
I said, "No, I don't."

686
00:49:10,034 --> 00:49:14,596
He's like, "Polar bears are the
fiercest killers in the animal kingdom."

687
00:49:18,977 --> 00:49:20,239
At this point, I'm just like:

688
00:49:20,411 --> 00:49:24,541
"This dude has way too much access
to the Discovery Channel."

689
00:49:24,716 --> 00:49:30,052
So I get done with my first draft,
and I send it in, and they like it.

690
00:49:30,221 --> 00:49:33,748
They start sending it off to people.
They send it to Nic Cage, Tim Burton.

691
00:49:33,925 --> 00:49:37,190
During this time, we have
the premiere for Chasing Amy.

692
00:49:37,362 --> 00:49:41,025
I invite Jon because I know he
doesn't know anything about my work.

693
00:49:41,199 --> 00:49:44,259
In fact, nobody at Warner Bros.
knows my work...

694
00:49:44,435 --> 00:49:46,926
...beyond having read the script
for Chasing Amy.

695
00:49:47,105 --> 00:49:50,632
I was always afraid somebody
at Warner Bros. Would be like:

696
00:49:50,808 --> 00:49:56,212
"We gave our multimillion-dollar
franchise to the Clerks guy?

697
00:49:56,381 --> 00:50:00,647
Like, he's gonna turn in a script with
fucking Clark jumping on Lois going:

698
00:50:00,818 --> 00:50:03,480
'How many fucking dicks
did you suck?"'

699
00:50:07,559 --> 00:50:11,495
I figured it was fair to invite the
producer of the movie I was writing...

700
00:50:11,663 --> 00:50:13,028
...to see my new movie.

701
00:50:13,198 --> 00:50:16,099
I said, "We're having a premiere
for Chasing Amy. Wanna come?"

702
00:50:16,267 --> 00:50:18,497
He showed up,
and I talked to him the next day.

703
00:50:18,670 --> 00:50:21,104
He was going,
"Interesting. Interesting flick."

704
00:50:21,272 --> 00:50:23,536
Which in Hollywood means
"I didn't like it at all."

705
00:50:23,708 --> 00:50:25,573
He's going,
"You know what I liked?

706
00:50:25,743 --> 00:50:28,803
The gay black guy.
I liked that a lot. I liked his voice."

707
00:50:28,980 --> 00:50:30,709
I said, "Yeah, Dwight is very funny."

708
00:50:30,882 --> 00:50:33,544
He said, "That's what we need
in our movie."

709
00:50:33,885 --> 00:50:36,945
I was like, "You want Dwight?
He'd be happy to do it."

710
00:50:37,121 --> 00:50:40,215
He said, "No. We just need
that voice, that character...

711
00:50:40,391 --> 00:50:45,590
...somebody like him in our movie.
Can't Brainiac have a sidekick?"

712
00:50:45,763 --> 00:50:47,993
And I was like, "Yeah, I guess."

713
00:50:48,166 --> 00:50:50,828
And he's like,
"Give him a little robot sidekick...

714
00:50:51,002 --> 00:50:53,562
...and give him that dude's voice."

715
00:50:53,905 --> 00:50:58,865
I said, "Really? You want the robot
to sound like a gay black man?"

716
00:51:00,111 --> 00:51:04,980
And he said, "That's what this movie
needs, a fucking gay R2-D2."

717
00:51:07,652 --> 00:51:10,348
At this point, the Star Wars
movie was in rerelease.

718
00:51:10,521 --> 00:51:13,752
It opened up that previous weekend,
made like 30 million bucks.

719
00:51:13,925 --> 00:51:18,521
He'd gone to see it again. He was like,
"We need shit like that in our movie.

720
00:51:18,696 --> 00:51:22,359
We need something that we can
make toys of and shit like that.

721
00:51:22,533 --> 00:51:25,400
Like Chewie.
We need Chewie in this movie."

722
00:51:25,570 --> 00:51:29,199
I was like, "You want me to just
fucking write Chewie into the movie?

723
00:51:29,374 --> 00:51:32,605
Superman wrassling Chewie?"

724
00:51:32,777 --> 00:51:34,745
He said,
"No, but something like that.

725
00:51:34,912 --> 00:51:38,905
Maybe Brainiac has a little cute dog,
and we can make a toy out of it.

726
00:51:39,083 --> 00:51:42,143
Because that's what it's about.
We gotta sell toys off this movie."

727
00:51:42,320 --> 00:51:44,618
I said, "I don't know
if that's gonna work."

728
00:51:44,789 --> 00:51:48,088
He said, "Don't tell me it's not
gonna work. I want my Chewie."

729
00:51:48,259 --> 00:51:51,092
I was like, "I got
your fucking Chewie right here."

730
00:51:52,096 --> 00:51:54,792
But I don't say that
because I like the job.

731
00:51:54,966 --> 00:51:59,096
So Tim Burton and Nic Cage
sign on based on my draft.

732
00:51:59,270 --> 00:52:01,761
And I was kind of excited.
That's kind of neat.

733
00:52:01,939 --> 00:52:05,466
Fucking Tim Burton, Batman. 
And Nic Cage, you know...

734
00:52:05,643 --> 00:52:07,508
Fucking Nic Cage.

735
00:52:08,379 --> 00:52:11,246
But when Tim Burton
got signed onto the project...

736
00:52:11,416 --> 00:52:13,577
...Tim Burton signed
a pay-or-play deal...

737
00:52:13,751 --> 00:52:17,312
...which means, no matter what happens,
Tim Burton gets paid his directing fee.

738
00:52:17,488 --> 00:52:21,424
At that point, it was 10 million bucks.
5 to 10 million dollars.

739
00:52:22,126 --> 00:52:24,151
Tim Burton, once he signs
the deal, turns around and says:

740
00:52:24,329 --> 00:52:26,524
"I'm gonna bring on my guys
to write a script."

741
00:52:26,698 --> 00:52:30,099
Warner Bros. Was like, "What
about the script we're developing?"

742
00:52:30,268 --> 00:52:33,135
He said, "I don't wanna use that.
I wanna do my own script."

743
00:52:33,304 --> 00:52:37,400
Presumably a version of Superman
where he has scissors for hands.

744
00:52:44,382 --> 00:52:47,249
So they turn around and tell me,
"Kevin, we're done.

745
00:52:47,418 --> 00:52:52,412
Tim wants to go another way with a new
writer." And I was like, "All right."

746
00:52:52,590 --> 00:52:56,082
I wasn't really that upset.
I'd worked on it for two drafts...

747
00:52:56,260 --> 00:52:59,821
...and I got to hang out with
a really fucked up, kooky dude.

748
00:53:00,531 --> 00:53:04,058
A dude who I can tell stories about
for the rest of my life.

749
00:53:04,702 --> 00:53:08,229
And they paid me a lot of money.
I would have done it for free.

750
00:53:08,406 --> 00:53:11,398
I didn't tell them that.
And it was just fun.

751
00:53:11,576 --> 00:53:16,138
I got to work on Superman. I got
incredible access into the DC archives.

752
00:53:16,314 --> 00:53:19,112
People would give me
free Superman shit all the time.

753
00:53:19,283 --> 00:53:22,582
Then I got shitcanned, and I
started throwing Superman stuff away.

754
00:53:22,754 --> 00:53:24,119
Who needs to be reminded?

755
00:53:24,288 --> 00:53:29,021
But I was really reminded the next
summer when I went to the movies...

756
00:53:29,193 --> 00:53:33,391
...and saw a movie
that Jon Peters had produced.

757
00:53:33,564 --> 00:53:36,328
And it was called
The Wild Wild West.

758
00:53:48,913 --> 00:53:51,313
I'm sitting in the theater
watching the movie.

759
00:53:51,482 --> 00:53:54,508
I'm like, "Good Lord,
this is a piece of shit."

760
00:53:54,685 --> 00:53:57,279
But then, all of a sudden...

761
00:53:57,455 --> 00:54:00,652
...a giant fucking spider shows up.

762
00:54:09,934 --> 00:54:12,926
Here's a quick follow-up question:
Did you enjoy Batman?

763
00:54:13,104 --> 00:54:14,401
Since the same people...

764
00:54:14,572 --> 00:54:16,802
Did I enjoy Batman?
Yeah, I enjoyed Batman.

765
00:54:16,974 --> 00:54:19,442
With all its flaws and shit.
Yeah. Absolutely.

766
00:54:19,610 --> 00:54:22,738
When the movie came out,
I had no idea I wanted to be in film.

767
00:54:22,914 --> 00:54:25,178
I just watched movies.
That summer was huge.

768
00:54:25,349 --> 00:54:28,113
You couldn't turn around
without seeing the bat signal.

769
00:54:28,286 --> 00:54:30,777
People were cutting it
into their fucking heads.

770
00:54:30,955 --> 00:54:34,618
It was the summer of Batman. If you
were a comic book fan, it was hot.

771
00:54:34,792 --> 00:54:36,817
I was real deep into it at that point.

772
00:54:36,994 --> 00:54:41,226
I had just gotten back into comics, and
Batman was everywhere, so I was a fan.

773
00:54:41,399 --> 00:54:43,959
But Tim Burton, I guess, like...

774
00:54:44,135 --> 00:54:48,401
Ever since the Superman incident,
people bring me copies of the script.

775
00:54:48,573 --> 00:54:52,839
They buy it at comic book conventions or
the Internet and ask me to autograph it.

776
00:54:53,010 --> 00:54:56,969
I say, "All right."
And I always write, "Fuck Tim Burton."

777
00:54:57,215 --> 00:55:02,482
Because I figure he'll never see it.
But I guess Tim Burton finally saw one.

778
00:55:02,653 --> 00:55:06,589
Because during the summer, right
before Jay and Bob came out...

779
00:55:06,757 --> 00:55:09,248
...and after Planet of the Apes
came out...

780
00:55:09,427 --> 00:55:12,487
...there was a piece that ran
in the New York Post on Page Six...

781
00:55:12,663 --> 00:55:14,790
...in which Burton
chewed me a new asshole.

782
00:55:14,966 --> 00:55:17,901
At the end of Planet of the Apes...
Hope I'm not spoiling it for anyone.

783
00:55:18,069 --> 00:55:21,232
Marky Mark goes back
to fucking present day.

784
00:55:22,440 --> 00:55:24,738
It is fucking Marky Mark.

785
00:55:30,648 --> 00:55:32,411
I don't care
what he calls himself now.

786
00:55:32,583 --> 00:55:35,450
It was just like, "Feel it, feel it."
You know?

787
00:55:38,723 --> 00:55:41,055
The underwear dude.

788
00:55:41,225 --> 00:55:45,161
Marky Mark goes back to the present
day and lands at the Lincoln Memorial.

789
00:55:45,329 --> 00:55:48,298
The Lincoln Memorial has
a monkey's head on it or something.

790
00:55:48,466 --> 00:55:51,026
The cops get out,
and they're all monkeys. He's like:

791
00:55:51,202 --> 00:55:53,363
And the audience is like, "What?"

792
00:55:54,739 --> 00:55:59,176
I'm talking to this dude from the
New York Post named Lou Lumineck.

793
00:55:59,343 --> 00:56:03,006
He's a friend who's been covering
our stuff from the get-go on Clerks.

794
00:56:03,180 --> 00:56:05,740
He used to live
in Bergen County, in Jersey.

795
00:56:05,917 --> 00:56:08,750
So he goes... We were talking
about Planet of the Apes.

796
00:56:08,920 --> 00:56:11,047
I was like, "Did you see it?
What'd you think?"

797
00:56:11,222 --> 00:56:13,417
"It was fucking terrible!"
"It was real bad.

798
00:56:13,591 --> 00:56:16,560
Let's just try to ignore it
and pretend it never happened.

799
00:56:16,727 --> 00:56:21,323
But there's one thing in that movie I
found interesting, a weird coincidence.

800
00:56:21,499 --> 00:56:23,490
You got the Jay and Silent Bob
miniseries?"

801
00:56:23,668 --> 00:56:27,069
I had done this comic book miniseries
called Chasing Dogma...

802
00:56:27,238 --> 00:56:30,833
...that took place between the movies
Chasing Amy and Dogma.

803
00:56:31,008 --> 00:56:33,977
When they leave Chasing Amy,
the comic book story happens.

804
00:56:34,145 --> 00:56:37,444
At the tail end of the comic book,
in the last page, they enter Dogma.

805
00:56:37,615 --> 00:56:40,641
It was a little miniseries
that bridged it, and fun to do.

806
00:56:40,818 --> 00:56:43,719
We used a whole section of it for
Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back.

807
00:56:43,888 --> 00:56:46,948
The whole section with the monkey
came right out of the comic book.

808
00:56:47,124 --> 00:56:49,786
At one point, just like in the movie,
where Jay is imagining...

809
00:56:49,961 --> 00:56:52,725
...what's gonna happen
when monkeys take over the planet...

810
00:56:52,897 --> 00:56:56,298
...or if monkeys took over the planet.
We did that in the comic book.

811
00:56:56,467 --> 00:56:59,994
Same montage. There was one shot
in the comic that wasn't in the movie...

812
00:57:00,171 --> 00:57:03,572
...which was a bunch of apes pulling
the head off the Lincoln Memorial...

813
00:57:03,741 --> 00:57:05,470
...and replacing it with a monkey head.

814
00:57:05,643 --> 00:57:07,543
When I saw Planet of the Apes,
I was like:

815
00:57:07,712 --> 00:57:10,112
"That's fucked up!
I put that in a comic book once."

816
00:57:10,281 --> 00:57:13,717
On the phone with Lou, I was like,
"Pick up your copy of Chasing Dogma.

817
00:57:13,884 --> 00:57:17,342
Go to this page." He looks and goes,
"My God! It's just like in the movie."

818
00:57:17,521 --> 00:57:21,252
I say, "Isn't that fucked up?
Great minds think alike, motherfucker."

819
00:57:21,926 --> 00:57:25,760
He said, "You wanna say something?
We can make a piece for the paper."

820
00:57:25,930 --> 00:57:28,160
I said, "All right."
Because I'm a press whore.

821
00:57:28,332 --> 00:57:30,664
I will do anything
to see my name in print.

822
00:57:30,835 --> 00:57:33,929
So I was just like, "Yeah, great."
Even though it wasn't news.

823
00:57:34,105 --> 00:57:38,201
He said, "What do you have to say
about it?" I said, "I'm really mad.

824
00:57:39,577 --> 00:57:44,412
I feel like I've been ripped off,
and I am contemplating legal action."

825
00:57:50,521 --> 00:57:53,046
We're on the phone, like:

826
00:57:53,724 --> 00:57:57,057
Forty-year-old guy,
30-year-old guy:

827
00:57:58,529 --> 00:58:01,498
So he's like, "You mind if I call
Tim Burton and get a comment?"

828
00:58:01,666 --> 00:58:04,635
I said, "Go ahead. Let's get Tim
in on it. That'll be awesome."

829
00:58:04,802 --> 00:58:08,431
So the piece runs in the paper
two days later on page six.

830
00:58:08,606 --> 00:58:11,905
And it said, "Smith Furious at Burton,"
or something akin to that.

831
00:58:12,076 --> 00:58:15,512
And I read the article, and my quotes
don't come off as like:

832
00:58:15,680 --> 00:58:20,617
"I feel... I'm pissed off."
It says, "He's very pissed off.

833
00:58:21,052 --> 00:58:25,716
He feels ripped off, and he's
currently contemplating legal action."

834
00:58:25,890 --> 00:58:27,858
I'm going,
"That's not what I said at all.

835
00:58:28,025 --> 00:58:30,755
I didn't say it. I was:
What? You know?

836
00:58:30,928 --> 00:58:33,453
That's not in the article.
Where's the...?"

837
00:58:36,267 --> 00:58:40,533
And in the piece it said, "When asked
for comment, Tim Burton said:

838
00:58:40,705 --> 00:58:45,540
'Anybody that knows me knows that
I would never read a comic book."'

839
00:58:45,710 --> 00:58:49,339
Which to me explains fucking Batman.

840
00:58:57,521 --> 00:59:00,513
But it said...
Then the next quote was:

841
00:59:00,691 --> 00:59:05,458
"And I would especially never read
anything created by Kevin Smith."

842
00:59:05,629 --> 00:59:08,393
And I was just like,
"Holy shit, man!"

843
00:59:08,566 --> 00:59:13,265
Like, the claws came out.
The scissor-hands came out.

844
00:59:13,804 --> 00:59:17,535
Because Tim, I don't know
if you've ever seen him in interviews...

845
00:59:17,708 --> 00:59:20,040
I think they did
an A&E Biography on him.

846
00:59:20,211 --> 00:59:24,978
But I've seen stuff with Tim in it, and
he's always like, "I'm a goofy artist."

847
00:59:25,149 --> 00:59:29,677
"I'm Goth, and I just like movie magic."
You know?

848
00:59:29,954 --> 00:59:34,391
Just like a real artsy-fartsy
fucking weirdo.

849
00:59:34,558 --> 00:59:38,892
And he wears the black, and he wears
big fucking Jackie O. Glasses.

850
00:59:39,063 --> 00:59:41,827
And he's got the hair that goes up
and cascades.

851
00:59:41,999 --> 00:59:45,901
He looks like an art-school student.
Always like this: You know?

852
00:59:46,070 --> 00:59:49,062
Doesn't dress nice, like this.

853
00:59:51,075 --> 00:59:54,806
Suddenly, Tim went from being like,
"I'm just a very kooky guy"...

854
00:59:54,979 --> 00:59:57,106
...to "Fuck fat Smith!

855
00:59:57,281 --> 00:59:59,806
Fuck him up his ass!

856
01:00:01,051 --> 01:00:04,043
I'm Tim Burton!
Who the fuck does he think...?

857
01:00:04,221 --> 01:00:06,689
I stole from him? Fuck you!"

858
01:00:06,857 --> 01:00:09,382
You know,
the verbal equivalent in the press.

859
01:00:09,560 --> 01:00:11,721
And I was flabbergasted.
Taken aback.

860
01:00:11,896 --> 01:00:15,024
I'm used to saying shit
about people left and right.

861
01:00:15,199 --> 01:00:18,259
Nobody ever says anything back
because people are fairly political.

862
01:00:18,435 --> 01:00:22,337
But for one brief moment, Tim Burton
was just like, "The gloves are off!

863
01:00:22,506 --> 01:00:24,599
Let's go."

864
01:00:32,650 --> 01:00:35,847
So I called up Lou. I was like, "What
did you do to me? What's going on?"

865
01:00:36,020 --> 01:00:38,488
He's going, "I told you
it would be a page six story."

866
01:00:38,656 --> 01:00:41,557
I said, "I didn't know you would
run it like a serious item."

867
01:00:41,725 --> 01:00:44,853
He said, "Once I got the Tim Burton
quote, I thought it was great."

868
01:00:45,029 --> 01:00:47,190
I was like,
"Yeah, but did you read it?"

869
01:00:47,364 --> 01:00:51,095
He said, "Yeah, it's funny as hell."
I was like, "It's funny to me and you!

870
01:00:51,268 --> 01:00:54,760
Everyone else thinks... I got people
calling me. CNN, the L.A. Times...

871
01:00:54,939 --> 01:00:57,499
...they wanna know when
I'm suing 20th Century Fox.

872
01:00:57,675 --> 01:01:00,109
We were..."

873
01:01:01,345 --> 01:01:05,679
And he said, "Look, man, just be
happy, because he had more to say."

874
01:01:05,850 --> 01:01:08,785
Lou, after we got done talking,
called Tim's publicist.

875
01:01:08,953 --> 01:01:12,480
Tim's publicist's name is Bumble Ward.

876
01:01:12,756 --> 01:01:15,190
I'm not making it up.

877
01:01:15,359 --> 01:01:21,195
Say it one more time.
Tim's publicist's name is Bumble Ward.

878
01:01:21,532 --> 01:01:24,524
There is somebody on this planet...

879
01:01:25,569 --> 01:01:28,163
...named Bumble.

880
01:01:32,443 --> 01:01:35,742
Bumble fucking Ward.
He calls Bumble, and he's like:

881
01:01:35,913 --> 01:01:40,111
"Kevin Smith said this about Planet of
the Apes. Would Tim like to comment?"

882
01:01:40,284 --> 01:01:44,015
And Bumble Ward at first
was just like, "No." Click.

883
01:01:44,188 --> 01:01:47,783
Lou started writing his article.
The phone rang five minutes later.

884
01:01:47,958 --> 01:01:49,220
It was Bumble Ward.

885
01:01:49,393 --> 01:01:52,726
And she said, "Tim does,
in fact, have a statement."

886
01:01:52,897 --> 01:01:54,194
He's like, "What is it?"

887
01:01:54,365 --> 01:01:56,663
She read off that statement
that he printed.

888
01:01:56,834 --> 01:02:00,565
Apparently, Bumble was like, "What
is he, 10? He's got nothing to say"...

889
01:02:00,738 --> 01:02:03,673
...and was talking to Tim like,
"The dude who made Clerks...

890
01:02:03,841 --> 01:02:06,901
...says you stole the ending
of Planet of the Apes from him."

891
01:02:07,077 --> 01:02:11,605
And Tim was like, "He said what?
Get them back on the phone!

892
01:02:11,782 --> 01:02:16,219
Here's my statement: I would never
read anything created by Kevin Smith."

893
01:02:16,387 --> 01:02:19,686
So Lou said, "Be happy that
I went to press as soon as I did...

894
01:02:19,857 --> 01:02:22,587
...because 10 minutes later,
Bumble Ward called back...

895
01:02:22,760 --> 01:02:25,558
...to say Tim has more statements
to make."

896
01:02:25,729 --> 01:02:30,996
Like, apparently, Tim was just like,
"I... Fucking... And say this too!

897
01:02:31,902 --> 01:02:35,338
He's ugly and his mother
dresses him funny.

898
01:02:35,506 --> 01:02:40,409
And fucking Mallrats was stupid.
And fucking... His wife's got big ears!"

899
01:02:40,577 --> 01:02:42,135
You know? Shit.

900
01:02:42,313 --> 01:02:45,646
But he'd gone to press
so he couldn't put it in the article.

901
01:02:45,816 --> 01:02:48,842
I always thought that if I ever
write a book one day...

902
01:02:49,019 --> 01:02:53,752
...a novel or something like that,
and you have to put quotes on the back...

903
01:02:53,924 --> 01:02:55,516
...you know, little review
blurbs and shit.

904
01:02:55,693 --> 01:02:59,026
Like, "It was a great read."
"Smith knocks one out of the park!"

905
01:02:59,196 --> 01:03:02,962
I'm gonna take that Tim Burton quote
and use that as the last quote.

906
01:03:03,133 --> 01:03:08,298
"I would especially never read
anything created by Kevin Smith."

907
01:03:13,811 --> 01:03:16,609
Hi. I'm gonna play the bad guy
in this situation.

908
01:03:16,780 --> 01:03:20,910
Union Board has come up and told me
five times to cut it off. So...

909
01:03:21,085 --> 01:03:22,245
I'm sorry.

910
01:03:22,419 --> 01:03:23,943
Kevin! Kevin!

911
01:03:24,121 --> 01:03:27,284
It's just the way that this is set up.
I'm sorry.

912
01:03:28,659 --> 01:03:32,220
Nothing against you. I've enjoyed
this evening and listening to you.

913
01:03:32,396 --> 01:03:34,921
- Thanks. That's cool.
- Everyone, if you want to...

914
01:03:35,099 --> 01:03:37,693
He'll be out in the lobby
if you want to meet him.

915
01:03:37,868 --> 01:03:42,430
The quicker he goes to the lobby, you
can meet him and chitchat all you want.

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